Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

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Vedek Tabor
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Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

Post by Vedek Tabor »

Councilors, I hereby bring up the following bill for a hearing before the Council. No less than 1 week for debate and consideration of amendments.

Temporal and Cultural Non-Interference Bill

Counselor Kalix of Trill submits:

A bill where a Non-Interference Law similar to Starfleet General Order 1 will be put in place, to make sure that there are no changes in the timeline, paradoxes, Interference in the internal affairs of another society, and or societies possesing scientific or technological knowledge or equipment that they are not wise enough as a society to posses.

BE IT ENACTED by the Federation Council and with the consent of the President of the United Federation of Planets as follows:

Section I: Title

This Bill shall be referred to as the "Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill"

Section II: Prohibitions

1: Providing knowledge of other inhabited worlds (even if individuals or governments in the society were already aware of such) to peoples who had not started using warp technology.
2: Providing knowledge of technologies or science to a culture that does not posses faster than light travel.
3: Taking actions that support one faction, culture or government within a society over another.
4: Helping a society escape the negative consequences of their own actions.
5: Helping a society escape a natural disaster when the society knew about its existence before it occured.
6: Intefering in the internal affairs of another society.
7: Contacting a society that does not have faster than light travel.

Section III: Prohibitions relating to temporal travel

1: Interferance in historical events is prohibited.
2: If transported to the past, It is prohibited to discuss or mention to the inhabitants of that time the true temporal origin of the person or group of people from the future.
3: If transported to the future, it is prohibited discuss what happens in the future to people after returning to the present time.

Section IV: Exceptions in this bill

1: Reffering to Part 5, Section II "Helping a society escape a natural disaster when the society knew about its existence before it occured.", this can only be done if said society posseses faster than light travel or is done by means of where Federation intervation is unseen by this society, this happened when the enterprise saved a planet in the Selcundi Drema sector from vocanic eruptions that would make the planet uninhabitable to the pre-warp society that resided there.
2: Reffering to Part 1, Section III "Interferance in historical events is prohibited.", this can only be done if interference is neccesary to maintain and preserve the timeline.
3: Reffering to Part 3, Section III "If transported to the future, it is prohibited discuss what happens in the future to people after returning to the present time.", this can only be done if that knowledge absolutely neccesary to maintain Federation Security.
4: The only way someone can be pardoned from getting prosecuted due to breaking these laws, there must be a vote in the federation council and the president has to approve this pardon aswell.
5. This bill shall not allow nullifying the Guaranteed rights of Federation citizens, nor to prevent enforcement of the Guarantees.
6: Reffering to Part 6, Section II "Intefering in the internal affairs of another society.", this can be done if the person doing this has permission from said society.

Section V: Enactment

This bill will become law once it is constitutionally enacted.
Last edited by Vedek Tabor on 17 Nov 2020, 13:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

Post by Vedek Tabor »

(OOC: Apologies, should be 1 week not 72 hours.)
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Re: Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

Post by Toran Kalix »

I am offering an amendment, which includes the following:

1: Remove Part 4, Section II "Helping a society escape the negative consequences of their own actions."

2: Add a part in Section IV which will be as follows:
5: Reffering to Part 6, Section II "Intefering in the internal affairs of another society.", this can be done if the person doing this has permission from said society.

3: Reffering to Part 1, Section IV to "Reffering to Part 5, Section II "Helping a society escape a natural disaster when the society knew about its existence before it occured.", this can only be done if said society posseses faster than light travel or is done by means of where Federation intervation is unseen by this society, this happened when the enterprise saved a planet in the Selcundi Drema sector from vocanic eruptions that would make the planet uninhabitable to the pre-warp society that resided there.
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Re: Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

Post by Vedek Tabor »

Toran Kalix wrote:
14 Nov 2020, 15:31
I am offering an amendment, which includes the following:

1: Remove Part 4, Section II "Helping a society escape the negative consequences of their own actions."

2: Add a part in Section IV which will be as follows:
5: Reffering to Part 6, Section II "Intefering in the internal affairs of another society.", this can be done if the person doing this has permission from said society.

3: Reffering to Part 1, Section IV to "Reffering to Part 5, Section II "Helping a society escape a natural disaster when the society knew about its existence before it occured.", this can only be done if said society posseses faster than light travel or is done by means of where Federation intervation is unseen by this society, this happened when the enterprise saved a planet in the Selcundi Drema sector from vocanic eruptions that would make the planet uninhabitable to the pre-warp society that resided there.
The amendment is recognized. Given that the author of the bill has moved the amendment, I shall consider it a friendly amendment if there is no objection in 48 hours. If there is an objection, we will proceed to a formal vote.
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Re: Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

Post by Syrta »

A long time ago, two groups of energy beings fought one another, or at least that is our myth. Once upon a time, the gods fought the demons. The gods allied with the people of Betazed, in the process creating the houses. Each house followed a different god or group of gods. Each had a virtue they focused on, Truth, Health, Nobility, Curiosity, Courage and the rest. Each came to fulfill the function of one department of what other worlds considered governments.

I guess that made Betazed a theocracy. Each branch of what was effectively our government worshipped and focused on a different virtue, a different god or group of gods.

So it passed on through the ages. So it was until it was time to consider joining the Federation.

You see, at the time, the Federation was deeply concerned with the separation of church and state. It was a useful concept on Earth and elsewhere. So at the time, Betazed was not allowed to join the Federation until they changed their culture. The government had to be secular. The gods had to go, or we would be left exposed to invasion.

We caved. Sort of. We changed the names to protect the guilty. I won’t go into the details. We changed what the ‘departments of government’ were called more than we changed the culture.

Suffice it to say we are thinking of changing back. Some want to revert the houses back to their traditional theocratic norm. Others disagree, think that the commoners should play a larger role, that the boss people should not be focused on just one of the virtues that makes Betazed Betazed. The commoners who balance all thirteen virtues should play a larger role.

But this bill makes it clear. It should be Betazed’s choice, Betazed’s decision. The Federation, the Council, should not interfere with it.

To a great extent we owe a debt to Bajor. Their war between the gods and the demons was recent and ongoing. Their savior figure was a member of Starfleet. At present, one of their clergymen is president of the Federation. Obviously, the principle of separation of church and state has become less important, the principle of the Prime Directive more. But this is not the only way the Federation has twisted a member’s or prospective member’s culture.

I am of the First House, the House of Honesty and Truth. One of our primary functions is to Speak Truth to Power.

Pass this bill.

(OOC: Note, the above is one of the rare appearances of Syrta of Betazed, my character in an old incarnation of the sim. This bill just stepped on one of her pet peeves. She is not a voting character in this version, but Idris of Delta IV is of a similar mind on this issue.)

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Re: Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

Post by Toran Kalix »

Coenselor Sytra, I understand your views on this but heres my opinion

"You see, at the time, the Federation was deeply concerned with the separation of church and state."
It isn't something that was concerning "at the time", the Federation Charter clearly states that there needs to be a wall in between church and state.

"But this is not the only way the Federation has twisted a member’s or prospective member’s culture."
The Federation didn't change Betazoid society, Betazed did that so they could join the Federation, which was something optional.

"At present, one of their clergymen is president of the Federation. Obviously, the principle of separation of church and state has become less important", just because a clergyman is the acting President doesn't mean that the principle of a separation of church and state is here, he is a democratically elected President Pro-Tempore, his rise from a counselor to President Pro-Tempore didn't have anything to do with him being a Vedek.

And about Bajor, it isnt a theocracy, yes the Vedek Assembly may have some Political influence and so does the Kai(well the Kais elected by the people), all matters relating to the Government are discussed by the Chamber of Ministers and their leader, the First Minister is democratically elected.
Last edited by Toran Kalix on 18 Nov 2020, 18:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

Post by Vedek Tabor »

Without objection, the author's amendments have been incorporated into the bill. 48 hours remain for debate and the consideration of amendments.
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Re: Debate: Temporal, Cultural and Societal Non-Interference Bill

Post by Idris »

I would disagree with how the charter is interpreted. It requires no wall between church and state, though it does forbid the establishment of an official Federation religion. Also, one of the guarantees is the right to worship as one pleases. In committee. I added an amendment to this bill, which was accepted as friendly, that this bill was not to be construed as forbidding the enforcement of the guarantees. I believe that clause could often be enforced to appropriately separate the powers of church and state.

In this case, the guaranteed right to worship as one pleases would guarantee any desire of Betazed to restructure the houses in order to worship as they please.

I am also vaguely recalling an incident in the Constitution Class era. I believe a starship encountered the god Apollo, who attempted by use of force to make the crew worship him. The captain responded by blowing up a temple with the ship’s phasers.

I have also heard of Q appearing on various ship’s bridges. I would not require the captain respond by informing an energy being that law required him not to interact. For one thing, that would be an interaction. He would be required to ignore the elephant in the room.

Energy beings, gods, demons, exist. They or various cultures often interact though churches and worship. They apparently sometimes have wars against one another. The Federation at times has been drawn into these conflicts. Often enough it is the energy beings that draw us in. There can be no policy of a wall existing, of ignoring reality, no shoving them across a legal barrier that does not exist.

Now the Federation does have a culture. To many, being a citizen of the Federation is meaningful thing. This bill forbids the council, other than by the guarantees, from creating or disseminating any such culture. I have made the guarantees an exception. Think deeply if there are any other exceptions that should be kept.

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